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Title: Law versus Grace
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Score: 302700
Posts: 6823
From: USA
Registered: 11/15/2008

(Date Posted:12/01/2012 8:47 PM)
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Blog EntryAug 17, '05 3:16 AM
by joie for everyone
From: joie2  (Original Message)Sent: 11/22/2004 9:09 PM

~ Law versus Grace ~

Today is Saturday, August 14, 2004. It is now 10:27 p.m.

I have already written many messages on the subject of law and grace, but this is a new approach which God gave to me a few days ago as I read Genesis one to my little granddaughter, Rachel, and was explaining some things there to her. God gave me this message as I talked to her. I think it is the best explanation of the difference between law and grace that I have ever heard.

To learn the difference between law and grace, to see where you are, in law or grace, is of the very utmost importance with eternal consequences.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins: 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

In time past we were walking around dead, dead in trespasses and sins. God told Adam the day you eat of the tree which gives the knowledge of good and evil you will die. Adam became dead in trespasses and sins.

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 2:7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Now this tells us that we are saved or made alive by grace. In grace Jesus quickened us or made us alive and back in heaven again = sons of God. The law is works, so by the law no man is alive or saved.

So by this principle we find that Adam was in Grace in the beginning of his life. He was alive and walking in the Light and Glory of God, fellowshipping with God every day. He was not afraid of God.

We are told to come boldly into the presence of God. But only those in Grace, filled with the Holy Ghost can do this. Everyone else is afraid of the presence of God. People with the Holy Ghost, or Grace, love the presence of God.

This has to be true, for God told Adam if he ate of the forbidden tree, he would die. So this proves he was alive before. Everyone who is not walking in Grace, filled with the Holy Ghost are dead in sins. Everyone under the law is dead in sins.

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby.

Here we are told that Jesus made both Jews and Gentiles ONE, or equals, by breaking down the enmity between them, which was the law of commandments. So this law was the forbidden tree, for it brought them into death.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

This tells us that by Grace we become part of the household or family of God. This house of God is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets with Jesus as the chief corner stone. Now the law and prophets are the OT law and prophets. Apostles and prophets are NT teachers. So this is telling us that only by Grace, NT salvation of the Holy Ghost, can we become children of God. This ‘building’, of which we are part, is growing together for a habitation of God through the Spirit. People, this glory is saying that God himself will come and dwell in us. We will be as Jesus = showing God to the world by his being in us. This is so powerful and glorious.

Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Notice Paul said he was given the dispensation of Grace. Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Now see that in the past age of law; old Israel; Moses; that this Grace dispensation was not known unto the sons of men, but it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit, which is the Holy Ghost. These prophets go with the apostles, not the law. This is the working of Grace.

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

So see that this mystery was hid in God from the beginning of the world. It was not known to those under law.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Paul begins to rebuke this church for going away from the Grace they have been called into. He said if anyone preaches another gospel other the gospel of Grace which he preached, let them be accursed.

Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

Now you know that the Jews’ religion was law. So under law Paul was persecuting the church of God.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Here Paul appeals to their reasoning >> did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law or by faith? You know it was by faith, so why are you being so foolish as to leave the Spirit which you began this Holy walk with and going back to the flesh, which is the works of law?

Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Now this establishes clearly that the law is not of faith. So then salvation is impossible by the law. If one cannot have salvation under the law, then under law one is dead in trespasses and sins.

So this completely proves that Adam fell from Grace to law. He was alive once unto God, but then he became dead and afraid of God. This is because Adam chose the law over Grace. Why? Why did Adam chose law instead of staying in the beautiful Grace he was created in? The above Scripture proves that if one is under the law they are under a curse. Only in grace is one blessed and are the children of Abraham. The law is not of faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God. So then it is impossible to please God by law. See that there is no justification by the law. If there is no justification, there can be no salvation.

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Now our inheritance of eternal life, a glorified body is not by law. So then the law cannot give one eternal life. IT is death.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Now this proves that after one truly gets into Christ, they are no longer under the law. So if you are still under the law, you are not in Christ. Under this grace covenant, we are all ONE. This means we are all EQUALS. In Christ God does not see male or female. He does not see Jew or Gentile. He sees only his children. By coming into grace, being baptized into Christ, we become Sons of God again, as Adam was in the beginning.

Adam and Eve were created on equal grounds in the beginning. So when and why was Adam set to rule over Eve? It was when they ate of that law tree. Under the law, the woman is ruled over by the man and not even permitted to speak in church. But under grace she is free, a son of God and on equal grounds with the men. God sees us all as ONE, not as men and women. He does not see Jews or Gentiles. We are not separated in Grace. Under law, the Jews had no dealings with other peoples.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Jesus was made under law to redeem them who were under law. So then redemption means one has been delivered from the law. So then it is proven that there can be no salvation under the law. If so, why did they have to be redeemed from the law? See also that only by being delivered from the law can one be adopted back as sons of God. Then we are no longer a servant, but a son. Jesus came here as a servant, for he was under law. Adam was placed into the Garden as a servant, for he had gone under law. Under the law people are only servants, not sons of God. Under grace we become sons of God. So this makes it crystal clear that only those in grace, not in law, can be children of God.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Paul admonishes the Christians to stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us FREE. So Grace is freedom. Be not entangled AGAIN with the yoke of BONDAGE. So what is that bondage?

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

So this ‘falling’ from grace to law is the falling which Adam did. He fell from grace to law. Under grace no sin is imputed. Up until Adam partook of law, he had no sin. He was perfect. But after he took up the law, he was ‘naked’ or in sin. He never repented, so his sin is forever held against him.

Now the apostles showed in Acts 15 that the law of Moses was that yoke of bondage which Paul told us not to become entangled with. They gave no commandment for us to go back to law. Paul said if you go back to even one part of law, you fall from grace and Jesus Christ is then of no effect unto you. He said if you are led of the Spirit, you are not under law. So then there was and is no leadership of the Spirit or Holy Ghost under the law. It is strictly fleshly. One is led of their own fleshly desires and lusts under law. It is the works of the flesh. It is the spirit which is at work in the children of disobedience. So then it is disobedience to God to be under law. This was the sin of Adam. He left grace and went into the works of the law. Why?

Read the rest of Gal. five. It tells of the works of the flesh: adultery, fornication, drunkenness etc. This is the life people live under the law. Read this:

Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Desirous of vain glory. This is the purpose for Adam going under law. Under the law there are ‘giants’ = men setting themselves up above others. Under grace we are all the same -- one--equals. Very few people wish to be this way. Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself. This is grace or love. Very few people wish to live this way. Greed. Selfishness. Proud. Boasters. Bow down and worship me and I will set you up as king. That is what Satan tempts with. That is law.

Adam desired to be God. Under law he could be worshipped. Under law he could rule over others. This is the desire of almost every ‘pastor’ in the land today = they wish to rule over the church. I heard a pastor just a week ago tell his church that they could never rise above the pastor. Such PRIDE! Such foolishness! Where do they get this stuff? From their own carnal, puffed up minds. God hates this attitude! This is telling the children of God that they cannot go to God for themselves and receive teaching from God.. This does away with the Work of Jesus to make us all ONE. This true ONENESS is what they hate. Envying one another, provoking one another. All of this is the life under law. There is NO love under law.

How do I know? The law demands punishment for every fault and failing. If your neighbor smites you, hit him back. An eye for an eye; a tooth for a tooth. Vengeance. Yes, go get him. If he steals something from you, take him to the judge and have him killed. If the wife commits adultery, go have her stoned to death. Never oh never forgive her! It is sin to forgive her. You must take her out to be killed.

That is law! Pick up sticks on the Sabbath Day and you must die for it! Is that what you all want? Then why do you go back to law? Why are many and many more yards every day sticking up signs saying ten commandments? They want law so bad! [TheyTHINK they do].

There is absolutely no mercy under the law. It is impossible. For even God demands you be killed if you break the law. There is no love under the law. How can you love your neighbor as yourself? You must have him killed if he sins against you. But what says grace? Jesus said if you do not forgive from the heart every trespass of man against you, God will not forgive you your sins. For if you show no mercy [grace] you will receive no grace of mercy.

Grace is forgiveness. You must forgive from the heart or there is no mercy or grace for you. This places you back under the law. If you desire to get vengeance on someone who has wronged you, even if it is just speaking against this person to his hurt, then you are not forgiving and you have fallen from grace back to law and death. God said vengeance is His, he will repay. So if you seek vengeance, you are doing as Adam, trying to sit in the seat of God. This takes you into death or law. In doing so, you are trespassing the law of God to forgive the sin against you. This is the law of grace, forgive every sin.

Job 31:13 -If I did despise the cause of my manservant or of my maidservant, when they contended with me; 31:14 What then shall I do when God riseth up? and when he visiteth, what shall I answer him? 31:15 Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb? 31:16 If I have withheld the poor from their desire, or have caused the eyes of the widow to fail; 31:17 Or have eaten my morsel myself alone, and the fatherless hath not eaten thereof; 31:18 (For from my youth he was brought up with me, as with a father, and I have guided her from my mother's womb;) 31:19 If I have seen any perish for want of clothing, or any poor without covering; 31:20 If his loins have not blessed me, and if he were not warmed with the fleece of my sheep; 31:21 If I have lifted up my hand against the fatherless, when I saw my help in the gate:

Job was a righteous man. God said he was perfect. Now why was this? Job was living the Grace life. He considered his servants on equal grounds with himself. He held that God made us all the same in the womb. He gave to the poor, helped the widows, and the fatherless. He gave to the needs of poor people. This is love; this is Christianity. Job was in grace, that is why he was perfect. In grace God does not impute sin to us. He sees us as perfect. Under law no one is sin-free, for by the law shall no flesh be justified. Job lived the equality of the Apostolic church.



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From: USA

RE:Law versus Grace
(Date Posted:12/01/2012 8:48 PM)

From: joie2Sent: 11/22/2004 9:10 PM
Part 2:

Pro 22:2 The rich and poor meet together: the LORD is the maker of them all.

This shows the equality of Christianity. Under law one rules over the other. Thus they become giants among men. This is not pleasing to God. He hates it. When the King of Nineveh came off his throne and sat in ashes with the rest of his kingdom, God was well pleased and turned away the destruction set for them. This king came under the equality of Christianity or grace. Under grace we are ALL ONE OR EQUALS.

Matt 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

See here Jesus told his disciples not to exercise dominion over others. So I ask you, why is the present day churches full of men ruling over the church? It is under law. They go back to tithing and all such things of law. They have fallen from grace or equality. So check your own heart and thoughts. Unless you consider every Christian as the very same and do not hold up someone as more than someone else in the body, then you are not under grace. You still have that ‘law’ attitude. Unless you esteem the words God may give to a babe in Christ just as important as what some ‘great’ preacher says, then you are sinning and under the law. Grace is love and unity.

This is why the teaching of being ‘faithful’ to some ‘local’ assembly is not a true teaching. It separates the body of Christ. It tears down your esteem for a member of the body who does not hold to this man-made doctrine. It is absolutely not written in the Word of God, therefore it is doctrines of men. When God sends one of his children to a church with the Word of God and that pastor or church refuses this person or word, that is Jesus standing and knocking at your door and you refuse to let him in. God showed me this a few nights ago in a vision. So pastors, beware. Your partiality to only those who attend your local assembly has caused you to sin in refusing the knock of Jesus and will not let the Word in to ‘your’ flock. They are not your flock, but under law you think they are. Under Grace we are all FREE. If your church has you bound, it has taken you back to law. Flee, run as fast as you can. Get to Grace, get to freedom.

Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Now here Peter showed that under the old law the Jews did not keep company with anyone of another nation. But God had showed Peter that this is not his way. No man is considered common or unclean under grace. Glory to my God! So these pastors and church members who will only fellowship with other members of their little fold, and will only let a minister in who holds with their little creed is still under this law attitude which Peter had to be delivered from. It is the very same principle. You will not keep spiritual company with anyone of another ‘nation’ or denomination or one whom God has taken out of ‘church’ altogether. To you, this person is not fit to fellowship with or to allow to speak in your little church. It is LAW. You had better repent and seek grace while you still can.

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation.

Here we see that everyone came from the same blood. There is no such thing as serpent seed children and human children. It is lies of Satan. We are all ONE in Christ Jesus. The Apostles did not consider themselves to be above anyone. Neither did the people lift them up above other Christians. Those who do are under law.

Under grace we are each one a priest and king to God. We may go to God for ourselves. We need not a priest or prophet to go to God for us. We ourselves may come boldly before the throne of God. Those under law cannot come before God.

Remember how God told Moses not to let any of the children of Israel come up nigh to him or even touch that mountain while God was there? Sure, that is how it is under law. See how afraid those people were of the presence of God upon that mountain? They did not want to ever hear his voice again. People, this is how it is under law. You will listen to some man all day long, but do not ever let God speak! But notice that Moses went right up into God’s presence and loved it. Why? Moses had grace. This is also why most people will only attend a church where the presence of God is not there. Just let someone have the true Holy Ghost and show forth any of the gifts of the Spirit, and those people will flee. Let someone come in with a true revelation of the Word from God, and almost 100% of church folks and their pastors will reject it. They hate the true presence of God and His True Word, for they are under law. The law was that lesser light which rules over the night. The night is the law or darkness or blindness. So these people are blind to truth and that is why they hate someone who brings in real truth. They are blinded by law. They are blinded by false teachings.

That is why after Adam went to law, he was AFRAID of the presence of God. Before that God had walked and talked with them each evening. Now they realize they are NAKED, or under law, so they hide from God. Under grace God does not impute sins. So we are clean or clothed and not afraid of God. Naked meant they did not have on the righteous garment of grace. This is the covering which is sufficient. God told Paul My Grace is sufficient for you. Law is not sufficient. Law is the covering which is too short and too narrow. It will leave you out in sin and destruction. Law is sanctified only by the blood of animals. Grace is sanctified by the Holy Blood of Jesus Christ. Which one do you wish to live under?

If you wish to rule over others, you are under law. If you hold one up above others, call one a prophet, one a leader, one a minister above others, then you are not under love, grace, you are under law.

Adam became envious of God. He desired to sit in the seat of God. He said I will lift myself above the stars of God, I will be like the most high God. That is how and why he fell into law. See, under the law, sacrifices are made in worship.

Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Now study this verse a bit. Someone was sanctifying themselves in some garden, behind one tree in the midst. What garden? What tree in the midst of that garden? Let the Scripture interpret the Scripture. It must be in the Word. So we find that the tree mentioned to be in the midst of a garden was that tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden. So this is Adam and Eve. What were they doing? Attempting to sanctify themselves by a sacrifice of some animal. This animal is held as an abomination after this. It was a swine. Adam and Eve had killed and sacrificed a pig and eaten it. This is the form of worship under law. Yes, people, Adam had talked Eve into doing this sacrifice for he wanted to be worshipped as God. I know you may not believe this, but this is the true revelation of this Scripture. Under the law, one must kill and offer the blood of some animal. This is how Adam partook of that law. He had set himself up to be worshipped. Did not God say, “now the man has become as one of us to know good and evil?” Did not the serpent mind say God knows that ye shall be as gods? Sure. This is what Adam was tempted with and what he sinned with. So if you go to law you are also doing as they did: attempting to sanctify yourself by the blood of animals.

Isa 14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. 14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: 28:3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee: 28:4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures: 28:5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffic hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches: 28:6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

Compare these two different Scriptures. You will see they are speaking of the very same being. It is the one who became jealous of God and determined to become God. Yet the Word said in both Scriptures that this is just a man, and not God. It is a man, not a spirit. It is Adam. See that it is the Adam, or human nature, which has destroyed the cities of this world? It is man which has destroyed his land. It is Adam. It is mankind. Yet they shall be brought down to hell for their evil. Notice he was called the son of the morning. This is none other than Adam. All of the above took place at the flood. That is where Adam’s glorified race died and became weak and in worms or human flesh.

Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Now this message has taken a total different turn from what I at first intended, but I prayed over it and this is how God has led me; so be it. Study this.

See then that this being who set his heart to be God was in that GARDEN OF EDEN. So who was it? None other than Adam. He was created PERFECT. But then iniquity was found in him. Who was it? None other than the Son of God, Adam. He was set up as an anointed cherub. Who was it? None other than the Son of God, Adam. How can you deny this? Who else could possibly fit this description? I know of no other. If you do, please tell me with the Word of God.

He was perfect in beauty; he was wiser than Daniel. Who was it? Adam. Yes, Adam is the only being who could fit this description.

Now one more Scripture to prove this: Eze 31:8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty. 31:9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him. 31:10 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height; 31:11 I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness. [See this lifting himself up in his height was where and how the ‘giants’ came to be. It is also showing that God drove him out of the Garden. “I have driven him out for his wickedness, could pertain to none other than Adam.] (Let Scripture interpret Scripture: where is it recorded that any other creature was DRIVEN OUT FOR HIS WICKEDNESS?)

This is showing that this one being was the most beautiful creature of God. It was God’s own Son, Adam. He had lifted himself up in height [became a giant] so that he aroused the envy of all the others there. This is what law does. Under Grace we are all ONE. We are all the same. We love each other and are not jealous or envious of each other. We love our neighbor as ourselves. We do not seek vain glory. Satan, [Adam] tempted Jesus to desire to be a king, to seek self-glory. But Jesus refused this.

Adam plunged the world into law and sin. Adam plunged the World into darkness and death. Law is death and darkness. Grace is light.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

God brought forth LIGHT. This is Grace and Truth. Jesus was this LIGHT. It was the Word of God, not the man Jesus, but the Word inside Jesus. Law is the darkness. It is the NIGHT. God divided these two covenants. One is life; the other is death. One is Spirit. The other one is flesh. Law is death and bondage. It demands death if you break it.

Grace is life. It demands that you forgive every trespass against you. If you do not, God will not forgive you. Thus you will have not grace, or mercy, or salvation.

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

In the above verses is proof of all I have said. Notice how it speaks of the trees of the garden. Where else is this spoken of in the Word? I know of no other place. Notice also how God connected their being afraid with their having eaten of the tree he told them not to eat of. Adam admitted he was naked and also afraid of God. This is because he now is under that false covering of law. Under Grace he was not naked or afraid of God. Now they are trying to sanctify themselves behind that tree in the midst, eating swings flesh as a sacrifice for sins. People, if you dwell under the law this is where you are. Flee to the NT Grace Covenant. Live by faith and grace and love or you will die forever. The law is not of faith. By the law shall no flesh ever be justified. There has never been one soul justified by law.

I wish to go back to our first Scripture again right here: Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins: 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

People, this prince of the power of the air is Adam. It is Satan. Man, Adam, rules this earth kingdom or the air. In time past they walked by law or the route Adam took. He is that spirit which now worketh in the children of disobedience. He was disobedient to God, so his children are like their father, disobedient. It is that ‘first-man-Adam’ spirit in our flesh. We must crucify this spirit in order to live. We must be then filled with the Spirit of God, the Holy Ghost. If you refuse the Holy Ghost, you will forever stay under that law, flesh covenant of Adam.

If you take someone to court, you are living under law. You must FORGIVE every trespass to be under grace. Paul said why not rather suffer or permit yourselves to be defrauded, did he not? Why do you not ever consider this? Why is it not taught by the pastors of this land? Because they are still teachers of law. They tell you that you must tithe and be faithful to their little assembly. This is bondage or law. Jesus said if someone takes your coat, let him have your cloak also. Do not take them to court before the law. Forgive it. If they ask to borrow let them have it not asking it back again. This is love; this is grace. Under law you take them before the judges and have them punished. If you do, that is how God will deal with you. Jesus told that even after one has received forgiveness of a debt, if they then do not forgive one, their forgiveness will be taken away from them and they will have to ‘pay’. So see how important this thing of law and grace is that you come to understand the difference?

Everything in the Word of God, from those two trees in the Garden on down to the end of Revelation or the end of the world is either law or grace. That is the two testaments or covenants. The sheep of God on the right hand are those who live by grace. The goats on the left hand are those who live by law. Where are you? Where will you spend eternity? It all depends on which of these two trees you are ‘eating’ of. Law or grace. Life or death. Light or darkness. Sight or blindness. Truth or error. It is law or grace, love and forgiveness or hate and vengeance.

By: Jo Smith

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From: USA

RE:Law versus Grace
(Date Posted:12/01/2012 8:50 PM)

msn-joie wrote on Sep 15, '05
InfiniteChesed  (Original Message)


Is Israel on earth, the one that is written in the bible?

Ok, let's deal with this one now.  Please forgive me for not getting to it sooner,

but you see what has gone on on the board.  Too much to deal with at one time. 

 But here we are:

Yes Israel is on earth right now.  It will always be on earth.  But, know

that 'Israel' does not mean any certain country on the earth.  Israel was

a heavenly NAME of the Lord.

Proof?  Yes!

Gen. 32:27.  And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said,

 28.  And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel:

 for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

I will give you some referrences here; too much to copy and paste it;

 just go read it.  In Is. 41 Israel is called God's servant, but it is speaking

of Jesus, not the nation of Israel.  See Israel was the heavenly name

 of the Lord long before Jacob existed.  See that Jacob was the real

name of the natural man; but his name was changed to go by the

name of the Lord, which was Israel.

Isaiah 42

 1.  Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul

delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment

to the Gentiles.
 2.  He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
 3.  A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not

 quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
 4.  He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the

 earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
 5.  Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched

them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it;

 he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk

 6.  I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand,

and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
 7.  To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and

them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
 8.  I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another,

 neither my praise to graven images.

Please read the whole chapter.  Here you will find that Jesus is being referred

 to as God's servant.  This chapter proves beyond a doubt that the true

servant of God is Jesus. No one else could fit this description. 

Is. 43: 5.  Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east,

and gather thee from the west;
 6.  I will say to the north, give up; and to the south, keep not back: bring my

sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;
 7.  Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my

glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
 8.  Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.

See, this says those Israelites were called 'by MY NAME'.  This establishes

that Israel is actually the name of the Lord.  See that Jacob was only called

by the Lord's Name to show that for all time, God calls his people by His

 Own Name.  That is why in the NT we must be called by the name of Jesus

in Baptism.

No way around it.  Israel is the true Christians.  Yes, we are still on earth.

Heb. 8: 8.  For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith

the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with

 the house of Judah:
 9.  Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day

when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because

 they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
 10.  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after t

days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their

 hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

This can be speaking of no one except the NT Christians.  See then that we are

 called Israel.  We are the ones the New Covenant is with.  We are Israel.

Romans 9: 6.  Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they

 are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
 7.  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but,

In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
 8.  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children

of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

See not all the flesh children are Israel, but the spiritual seed of Isaac.  The

children of the promise are counted for the seed = Israel.  The promise?  That

of salvation through Jesus Christ.  so who inherited that?  The Christians, of


Now for one more.

Romans 2:28.  For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that

circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
 29.  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the


in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

He is not a Jew unless he is one inward. 

Gal. 3:26.  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
 27.  For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on

 28.  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is

 neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
 29.  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

If ye be Christ's ye are Abraham's seed = Israel.  See also then that we are the

children of the promise?  Making us the Israel of God.  See, Israel, Jew, and

Jerusalem are not nationality; they are spiritual;  So is Hebrew.  There was no

such thing as a true nationality of Hebrews, Jews,  Israelites, or Jerusalem.  They

are all names of the Lord and of the people of God, the Christians.

What could be plainer?  and there are many more Scriptures proving this, but

this is enough to prove this to anyone who wishes to know truth.


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From: USA

RE:Law versus Grace
(Date Posted:12/01/2012 8:51 PM)

From: joieSent: 11/14/2003 4:56 PM
Now about being in the grace age:  Grace has existed since the beginning of the world.  Abraham was in Grace.  Abraham had the GOSPEL preached to him.  Those who are in Grace have the gospel preached to them. 
Moses was in Grace.  God preached the gospel of grace to him on that mountain.
Noah was in Grace.  but most people have always chosen law.  It too has always been.  In that Garden of Eden were two trees.  = two covenants or  ways of life.
Adam chose law, and thus went into death, for law brings death.
Grace is the tree of life.  Without grace, there is no life.  Law could not give or bring life.  it only brings death, carnality, darkness, blindness and bondage.
Most people today are still under law.  They both have always been.  No one is in grace because of it being a certain year and time.  It is a matter of how one chooses to serve God; either in faith = grace....
or by bondage = law.
I explained all those terms in the above post.  Jew, Jerusalem, Israel, Hebrew, these are all terms of heavenly origin which always refers to God's true people, which today are the Christians.  No one else is Israel.  Oh they might go by that earthly name, but they are not the true Israel or Jew as Paul said.
The benefit of being with God is of course eternal life.  Only the true Israelites will have eternal life.  All others will be cast into hell fire.  All who live under law will be lost, for the law is NOT OF FAITH.
By FAITH are you saved.
What could be plainer?
Only those who choose their own way could deny this it is so plainly taught.
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From: USA

RE:Law versus Grace
(Date Posted:11/30/2014 10:29 AM)


Just one more. Please bear with me.  I just wanted to ask you, how many people in the Bible found GRACE? Hope you can answer this. I am just testing 

you and see if you know your bible... LOL!  

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From: USA

RE:Law versus Grace
(Date Posted:11/30/2014 6:58 PM)

all right...what is your thoughts?  nice question.

I would say, all who will have eternal life are the ones who found grace.....but as to how many in scripture, may have that said about them, personally, i have never even thought of trying to find out.  Have you?
Interested in your answer.

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