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Title: Rapture Study
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Freeborn
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(Date Posted:12/03/2010 5:05 PM)
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Rapture StudyAug 5, '06 3:51 AM
by freeborn22 for everyone
Since this is such an important and misunderstood subject,  I have decided to set up a separate board for the study of this rapture question.  This way all may be able to get into this and maybe learn the truth of this matter.  I will start by posting some of the things we already studied here.

Now I am going to start this with the Scripture in Matthew.  Please stay with this for now.
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Mt 24:3

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

 

Mt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mt 24:6

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Mt 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mt 24:8

All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Mt 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Notice verse 3.  They are speaking about the coming of Jesus and the end of the world.  Now Jesus begins at THEIR day, and tells them how it will go from THEN till the end.

Verse 6,  Jesus tells them of the wars which will come, but he said THE END IS NOT YET.

Then he tells of famines, earthquakes and such, but he said all these are the BEGINNING of sorrows.

Now that shows it was all back in their day.  They were at the BEGINNING of all these sorrows and troubles.  Luke also used this;  but the end is not by and by.  So this was not down here at the end.  It was in their day and on down.

verse 9, Jesus is speaking directly to those disciples.  They were afflicted and killed.  They went through tribulation.

Mt 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mt 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mt 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. [this was accomplished by the Apostles]
Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mt 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mt 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mt 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mt 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

All of the above started and happened in THEIR DAY, and continued on down till the end.  The false prophets continue to this day.

Mt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I know the church has not understood this, but that great tribulation, which was the worst of all time, was there at CALVARY.  Yes,  That crucifixion of our Saviour was that worst tribulation ever to be.  It continued on down into the dark ages, as Christians were tortured so horribly, more than we can imagine.  They suffered things Our mind cannot even grasp. 

 Sure I know Christians are still being persecuted and tortured.  But it is still that great tribulation.  It will continue until the end.  But during those dark ages was the worst part.  It all began with the crucifixion of Jesus.  He suffered as no man has.  Paul suffered more than you can imagine.

Do you just discount all this tribulation on the Saints of God?  If so, how?

Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have TRIBULATION: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Ac 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much TRIBULATION enter into the kingdom of God.

2co 1:4 Who comforteth us in all our TRIBULATION, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

1th 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer TRIBULATION; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

2th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and Tribulations that ye endure:


Now all those verses, and there are others, proving that tribulation has always been upon God's people.

Mt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

The above proves that it continued on down through all the ages just as he said it would be.  False Christs and false prophets rising and doing things to deceive God's people.  The elect are all of God's people of FAITH.  God elected the people who believed in Jesus, Grace, not those law Jews.

Notice, he is now up to the point of the return of Jesus.  He said  it will be as the lightning shining from the east unto the west.  But WHEN?

Mt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Immediately  AFTER the TRIBULATION shall the sun be darkened and the moon not give her light, and the stars fall from heaven...now is not this that sixth seal?

....THEN  shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in Heaven.     and they shall see Him coming in the CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.

v31.....and he shall send his angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET [this is that last trump] and they shall gather together his ELECT.

Now, show me a rapture, or taking away the Christians, in all of that speech?  It is Jesus saying this, unless you deny the Word of God.

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Freeborn
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RE:Rapture Study
(Date Posted:12/03/2010 5:07 PM)

msn-freeborn22 wrote on Aug 5, '06
To get a full understanding of this study, we need to take in all aspects of this discourse in Matt. 24.  So now, let's deal with the daily Sacrifice and that which makes the desolation.
 
What do you think the DAILY SACRIFICE was?
Have you ever truly recieved the revelation of what this is?
 
Where was any DAILY SACRIFICE carried on at?  Only in the OT Law covenant.
 
Who or what was left DESOLATE?  I have been working a long time here to lay a good foundation for this group to see and understand that LAW  and GRACE are the answers to all the Scriptural questions.
But since some of you have not been here to read all of that,  I will have to take it back slowly together, if you are interested.
 
Now you must be able to answer each part of those verses you quoted if you are to ever really understand it.  You must search the Scripture until You find the Scriptural answer to each aspect of this.
 
So then read this:
 
Mt 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mt 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mt 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mt 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mt 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
msn-freeborn22 wrote on Aug 5, '06
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22 Sent: 10/1/2005 8:37 PM

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Heb 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


Now this is what I am referring to.  The OT priests, by law, had to offer those sacrifices DAILY.  Every morning and every evening, yet all of this could never take away their sins.

But Jesus offered himself up only ONCE and remitted our sins forever.  After this there is no more offering for sin.

See this is what I had in mind.

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Freeborn
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RE:Rapture Study
(Date Posted:12/03/2010 5:09 PM)

From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22 Sent: 10/5/2005 8:20 PM
Mt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Some of You say that the 'rapture' takes place under that sixth seal, right?  and you say this is BEFORE  that great tribulation.....yet read the above,  Jesus' own words:

He said IMMEDIATELY   AFTER the tribulation of those days,  the sun shall be darkened and the moon not give her light, and the stars fall from heaven..........now that is CLEARLY THAT SIXTH SEAL.

Nothing else in Scripture shows this except that sixth seal......so this PROVES that the sixth seal does not take place until AFTER THAT TRIBULATION.......and it goes on with........THEN---meaning after this.........will Jesus come in the CLOUDS.

Now how can you ignore this clear evidence that Jesus does not return until AFTER that tribulation is FINISHED.....the first resurrection does not take place until JESUS RETURNS.......and no living saints are changed until after that resurrection.

SO MY VERY FIRST POST Scripturally  PROVED THIS.

msn-freeborn551 wrote on Oct 15, '06
(I took these from another thread where GR was asking about the rapture:)

From: joie Sent: 9/14/2005 11:44 AM
Ok now Jesus said I will COME AGAIN..  where is he coming to?  Back to earth, right?
 
So he said that where I am there ye may be also.  Where?  Earth.  But of course it has a spiritual meaning as well.  Where is HE?  In the image of God.  So then we will be resurrected when he returns and caught up into this glorious image of God, which is glorification.
 
So shall we ever be with our Lord.  He will rule here on this earth forever.  There we will be also.
 
Now where did He go......to prepare us a place?    He WENT into death, hell and the grave.  He came again, so we could be given eternal life to be with Him in his eternal Kingdom  here on earth.
 
Jo
msn-freeborn551 wrote on Oct 15, '06
From: joie Sent: 9/14/2005 11:50 AM
Dear one, please study this with an open heart, ready to receive the ingrafted Word of God, proven by all Scripture.
 
Now does the Word of God teach that unless Jesus had gone up to heaven, we would not have salvation?  I do not know of that being in the Word.
 
Now see that the verse you gave said  I go  to prepare a place for you......  so this is saying that where he went [the place he is speaking of]   is the place he had to go to in order to prepare a place for us.  Do you see that?
 
Now the Word says that without his death and resurrection we would not have salvation.  So the place he went, to prepare us a place,,,was into his death and resurrection.
 
Hope you can see this.  He did not go to heaven to prepare us a place, for our place will be here on this earth eternally. 
Mt 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
msn-freeborn551 wrote on Oct 15, '06
From: joie Sent: 9/14/2005 11:57 AM
Before we go any further, take the time to look up the meaning of the word, CLOUDS.  Look it up in the English dictionary and also look for the meaning of this symbol in the Holy Scriptures.  For this is the only place you will find any real truth.
 
Clouds in the Word of God is NOT speaking of the little mist of water vapor up above us, or sometimes down on the ground.
 
Look up the meaning of the Word   AIR.  Reason in your own mind,  where is AIR?  Find out what the Scripture means when it uses this symbol.  This is the one and ONLY way of learning any real truth.  Don't just accept made up myths.  Search the Scriptures for the TRUTH.  And remember that all Scripture must agree with each other.
 
I hope you will stay in this study all the way.
 
Jo
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RE:Rapture Study
(Date Posted:12/03/2010 5:11 PM)

msn-freeborn551 wrote on Oct 15, '06
From: joie Sent: 9/14/2005 12:12 PM
Have you ever studied in the Scripture what the terms  'HOUSE'  and 'mansions' mean?  If not, you also need to study this.
 
2co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Now can you see from the above verses that Paul calls our bodies an earthly  HOUSE?

He said we groan in this house, our body.  we are desiring to be CLOTHED upon with our  HOUSE  which is from heaven. [see we will not walk into this house,  we will be 'wearing' it]

So what is that HOUSE?  How will we be CLOTHED with a HOUSE?

See that he also called this house a tabernacle, saying we are in this tabernacle and are groaning?

Verse 4 says that we will clothed upon with immortality, or that mortality [this earthly body] will be swallowed up of LIFE.  So then, this LIFE is that HOUSE from heaven, or our glorified BODY.

Now can you see that this clearly identifies that MANSION from Heaven as our GLORIFIED BODY?  When are we clothed upon with immortality?

At our resurrection, just as Jesus received his Mansion from heaven, or his glorified body at his resurrection.

He is saying that we will be forever with him in GLORIFICATION.  It is totally SPIRITUAL.  He is not speaking of NATURAL HOUSES , MANSIONS, AND SUCH.  This will be HEAVEN. 

Glory.  Notice also that he said this HOUSE was eternal in the heavens.......proving that it existed long before Jesus died or went to Heaven.

  So he did not go up to heaven to make us a house.  this is the height of carnal baby myths.

What a glorious subject to dwell in!  This is the perfect place to start a study of the 'rapture' lie from.  If you get the truth about this 'house' mansion' etc. you will be a long way down the road to understanding what you 'think' teaches a 'rapture'.

Jo


msn-freeborn551 wrote on Oct 15, '06
From: Isaiah Sent: 9/17/2005 4:44 AM

Acts- 1:4- And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Acts-1:8- But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

Acts-1:9- And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Acts-1:11- Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven

Rev-1:7- Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Now to show you these clouds . First I need to show you the meaning of the word cloud. It means more than you think it does.

The meaning of the word cloud- a visible mass of condensed water or ice crystals in the sky, it also means a crowd; a swarm.

As was stated above about the cloud of witnesses.

Heb.-12:1-Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, [ so we see from this that the cloud represents a crowd of people, or a swarm of people.] Now the question who are these people and where did they come from? To get the answer let’s go to-

Mat.-27:52- And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

027:053 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. [ see it said they went in the holy city which is why I underlined Jerusalem at the beginning of this. It said those which slept arose. Now let’s go to

1 Thess.-4:14-17- For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [ see same thing as Mat. Is saying in the above when he said they slept]

004:015 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.[ see the two or three witnesses.]

004:016 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

004:017 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [see we will be caught up in the clouds or that crowed of people to forever more to be with the Lord.]

1 Thes.3:13- To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. [Same thing as Rev.1:7 is saying- Behold, he cometh with clouds

;

To me this proves that those clouds that received Jesus up in the air were those old testament saints that came out of the graves and they are going to be as Acts 1:9 and Acts 1:11 states-

1:9- And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight

1:11- Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven

.

1Cor. 15: 51-

-Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED.

v53--For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

v54--So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

This, is the VERY SAME EVENT AS IN 1 THES. 4. - BEING CAUGHT UP MEANS BEING CHANGED INTO IMMORTALITY.

We are not going anywhere. We are going to be changed to be immortal as those resurrected saints. We shall be caught up to be immortal same as they. We shall ALL BE CHANGED.

CHANGED IS CAUGHT UP. That fake 'taking them up into the sky' is made up myths -- out of carnal minds. It is not borne out anywhere in the Word of God. I hope you can wake up and see the real truth.

Those 'clouds of glory' means those many resurrected saints of God -- a very great multitude--- look it up in a good dictionary.

Cloud represents God's Glory - not those little 'clouds' you look up and see in the sky. How is that God's Glory?

I hope that maybe this has opened some understanding about these clouds that received Jesus up.

 

msn-freeborn551 wrote on Oct 15, '06
From: joie Sent: 9/18/2005 12:12 AM
If our earthly house means our human body, [and it does] then our spiritual mansion also means a body.....it means the glorified body.  That will be our spiritual dwelling place.  And it is a secret.  How many folks you think knows this?
 
Now I do not know of any Scripture which says that glorified body does not have senses.  After all, Jesus did eat with his disciples after his resurrection.  Was he already in his glorified body at that time?  or was it only after he ascended that he was given his immortal body?
 
anyone know?
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